Von Chua:

Following on from Opening up the Soane, was the introduction of the new spaces within the team's conversation with the architects from day one? Or was it developed over time?

Helen Dorey:

Well, there were a lot of feasibility studies that had to be done. The final phase of our 30 years of restoration was Opening up the Soane, and this really began with the idea that having bought No. 14, we might be able to move back of house functions around. While the Museum didn't have No. 14 for the previous 180 years, the staff had been occupying rooms on the second floor which were originally part of the Museum. We were all stuffed into these rather small rooms, surrounded by pieces of furniture and works of art that should have been on display. And the rooms themselves had also been altered substantially. I would say that there were two major elements to the project: getting better conditions for the staff and visitors - new shop, new exhibition galleries, new cloakroom, new and more toilets. And then, there was the facilitation of disabled access through introducing the lifts which we  considered was absolutely essential. Until we managed to do this, the question of disabled access was never going to go away because there is a requirement in law for equal treatment. Although historic buildings are protected to a certain extent because sometimes it's just totally impossible to provide access, nevertheless, we thought it was extremely important to do the very best we could to get as many people as possible, able to visit all the spaces.

…there was the facilitation of disabled access through introducing the lifts which we considered was absolutely essential. Until we managed to do this, the question of disabled access was never going to go away… we thought it was extremely important to do the very best we could to get as many people as possible, able to visit all the spaces.

Helen Dorey, MBE, Deputy Director and Inspectress at the Sir John Soane's Museum

I would say that the project did evolve because the feasibility of each element had to be assessed, and it was all so complicated. Just one example: we decided to put in an internal lift, but the space that the lift had to occupy was very challenging. It was a shaft funnily enough that already existed, because in the 1960s, a previous director had taken out the floors of a series of little closets, one on top of each other, thinking he could put in a lift, but had never been able to do it. So, we had a shaft which was a good start. Unfortunately, in the previous twenty years, we had used that shaft as a services run. The first feasibility study was to see whether we could take all electric, all the security, all the computer cabling, all the heating pipes, the gas pipes and water pipes out of that shaft. As you can imagine, that sort of exercise leads to a huge amount of work. Really, really complicated. We were fortunate to have tremendous support from our Trustees throughout the process and we did a lot of work through the preparation of the comprehensive Conservation Management Plan, peer reviews and other consultations to assess the impact of all the changes we wanted to make on our historic buildings. It was all done very carefully.

As you've hinted that in your question, solutions emerge as you go along. I think right at the beginning of Opening up the Soane, it wasn't necessarily clear that we would restore the entire second floor. It wasn't until somebody suggested that we could move our offices, and then somebody else said but if you did that, that would mean… So it was all a gradual process of working through ideas. Sometimes, you just can't see your way through initially and suddenly there's a eureka moment, and something become absolutely clear. The Soane Museum has been over the last 30 years like a giant jigsaw puzzle. If we're going to restore the Picture Room, how many pictures need to come out and how many pictures need to go back in? Where are they? The ones that are out, can we put them back where they were?  Or do we have to put them into the store for a few years until we can? It's been like a giant Rubik's cube, moving all these things around and gradually, we've got to a point where everything's where it should be. But it's been a very complicated 30 years.

The Soane Museum has been over the last 30 years like a giant jigsaw puzzle… moving all these things around and gradually, we've got to a point where everything's where it should be.

Helen Dorey, MBE, Deputy Director and Inspectress at the Sir John Soane's Museum

Von Chua:

When your team is planning for a new exhibition at the Sir John Soane's Museum, what is the workflow like?

Helen Dorey:

Our exhibitions programme is developed between our Head of Exhibitions, the curatorial team which I run, and the Trustees and Director. There are two parallel processes because some exhibitions are proposed by people externally (those tend to be more contemporary although they might be historic shows) and others are related to our own collection. The workflow is slightly different for each but essentially we have a structure of brainstorming meetings, and then more formal exhibitions planning meetings and an approvals process that involves Trustees. Formal meetings are held to approve the exhibition programme which we try to have in place for three years ahead if we can. That's really to enable the fundraising to take place and for us to develop the exhibitions with the right partners be they media partners or museum partners, lenders etc. It's a complicated process and it's quite challenging with such a small team. In our Exhibitions department, we have one Head of Exhibitions part-time, and one exhibitions curator who is full-time. Others contribute in a variety of ways but we do have to manage exhibitions to ensure that we have the capacity to deliver what we promise when we've promised it. So far, it's been very successful.

I would say that as a general principle, we don't move things in the Museum in order to put things into exhibitions… the reason for that is because the Museum is an icon for people who come from across the world to see Soane's interiors.

Helen Dorey, MBE, Deputy Director and Inspectress at the Sir John Soane's Museum

Exhibitions don't always involve the Museum and the collections. As a general principle, we don't move things in the Museum in order to put things into exhibitions. Generally we avoid having exhibitions that spill over into the Museum, but when we do it is very special, as it was in 2019 when we did a major Hogarth exhibition and displayed works in the kitchens as well as including works that were in the Picture Room. A few years ago we held an exhibition of sculptures by Marc Quinn which were exhibited throughout the Museum. Earlier this year (either side of the lockdowns), we had an exhibition of the works of Langlands & Bell, with works in the Museum's interiors. But in general, the principle is we don't want to disrupt the Museum to put on exhibitions. The reason for that is because the Museum itself is an icon for people who come from across the world to see Soane's interiors. Even a temporary exhibition will disrupt the experience for visitors, some of whom may not be interested in the show. But at the same time, such exhibitions obviously attract a lot of other people who may be first-time visitors to the Museum, and we're absolutely delighted to welcome them. That's particularly true for contemporary shows which bring in a new crowd.

The workflow is quite complicated but I think it has resulted in a rich and balanced programme of historic and contemporary shows covering not just architecture and architectural drawings, but also the fine arts and other subjects as well.

Von Chua:

What are the biggest challenges of maintaining the collection of 30,000 architectural drawings, in addition to 6,000 other objects including antiquities, furniture, sculptures, paintings and architectural models?

Helen Dorey:

Probably the biggest challenge is just the day-to-day cleaning and maintenance of historic interiors, which is done by our conservation team, who are helped by our visitor assistants, as well as external specialists when we need them.

…Peter Thornton said this wonderful thing and he used to say it often 'we should aim to keep this house so that if John and Eliza Soane walked in through the front door, they would not be ashamed of it' and I think that's spot on. Obviously, things can't look brand new, because they're 200 years old and in a historic house, but they shouldn't look shabby because the Soane is meant to be a smart architect's house preserved as it was when he lived there. So that’s what we try to do.

Helen Dorey, MBE, Deputy Director and Inspectress at the Sir John Soane's Museum

In English, we have this phrase 'it's like painting the Forth Bridge' (an iron bridge over the River Forth) - you finish painting it and you immediately have to start all over again. The same applies to looking after the Museum. In general, we don't really want to have to do major interventions. We want to be able to do our dusting, preventative conservation, try to protect works from light where we can with blinds, try keep things clean, make sure things aren't damaged, and keep them in very good order. One of my former bosses - Peter Thornton, said this wonderful thing and he used to say it often 'we should aim to keep this house so that if John and Eliza Soane walked in through the front door, they would not be ashamed of it' and I think that's spot on. Obviously, things can't look brand new, because they're 200 years old and in a historic house, but they shouldn't look shabby because the Soane is meant to be a smart architect's house preserved as it was when he lived there. So that’s what we try to do. And we have to compromise on conservation sometimes, for example, by having fresh flowers in the house or other things like that which keep it feeling like a home.

Von Chua:

In the Sir John Soane's Museum's case, there is a unique synergistic relationship between architecture and the collection. Which is more important: The Museum's architecture and interiors or the collection of architectural drawings and objects?

Helen Dorey:

You simply cannot separate the two. If you do, that's the end of the Museum. They just go together, they're a single whole. There are a certain number of world-class works of art irrespective of them being in the Soane Museum, such as our big Canaletto (the Riva degli Schiavoni) or the Hogarth paintings, but there are hundreds and hundreds more that really would have little significance if they're weren't part of this extraordinary world that Soane has created in which every object is associated with others to build up a web of ideas. Entering the Museum is like stepping into Sir John Soane's head. In fact, he described his arrangements as 'studies for my mind' and I think that's really what they are. You can't deconstruct them.

Some years ago the Museum applied for Designated Status. Normally that status is awarded to a particularly significant collection - within a museum which is designated as of outstanding national importance. However, in the case of the Soane, they agreed, exceptionally, that the entire museum and everything within it should be designated because that was the only thing you could do. It had to be all or nothing. In their citation they described the Museum as the 'supreme example of the House-Museum in the world'.

I think that sums up what the house and the collection embodies. And I am reminded of a quote by Maya Angelou:

The  ache for home lives in all of us, the safe place where we can go as we are and not be questioned.

To me, I think that's the type of attitude Sir John Soane adopted in his approach to his house on Lincoln's Inn Fields; it was a safe place for him to explore his creativity without questions. If you are in London and interested in architecture, art or even the use of natural light, the Museum is well worth a trip to the centrally located Covent Garden area in London. It is a unique chance to appreciate the works of Sir John Soane. The Museum is also made freely accessible for all visitors and is now also available to explore digitally at http://explore.soane.org/#/. All the items in the collection are online at www.soane.org/collections

The interview was conducted remotely on 13th May 2021. With a sincere thank you to Helen Dorey for taking the time to discuss the development in the Sir John Soane's Museum and sharing her deep insights from working with the Museum for over 30 years. Sir John Soane's Museum is located in No. 13 Lincoln's Inn Fields, London WC2A 3BP, United Kingdom. Thank you again to the Sir John Soane's Museum team for the opportunity to make this interview possible.

If you have any questions or would like to further discuss this interview with the Sir John Soane's Museum, please do not hesitate to contact me via email at von@vonxarchitects.com