Von Chua:

Charles Jencks’ unique position and understanding of architecture - architecturally trained but spent his career as a cultural theorist, landscape designer and architectural historian, and not forgetting Maggie Keswick Jencks’ input on the house, how did these influences have an effect on how The Cosmic House was approached and developed in the late seventies?

The Architectural Library at The Cosmic House. Photo courtesy of Sue Barr.

Lily Jencks:

Well, his work as a critic and a historian is clear in the Architectural Library*. The whole house was also really a manifesto of post-modernism. He was also helping to define post-modernism in the late seventies. A lot of other people were working on historic post-modernism. If you look around the house, there are some examples of historic post-modernism, but it's pretty wild in terms of his references, eg. both Egypt and PopArt, and both Art Nouveau and the Arts and Crafts movement. It's continuously inventive, weird and funny. I think the reason they built this house was to make a point - they really wanted to build a cultural discourse, and used the house as a laboratory to experiment with a symbolic language.

The whole house was also really a manifesto of post-modernism. I think the reason they built the house was to make a point - they really wanted to build with a cultural discourse, and used the house as a laboratory to experiment with this symbolic language.

- Lily Jencks

*Note on the Architectural Library

Lily Jencks:

The Architectural Library is a really fun room. As my father was working as a critic and a historian, this room is a city of books. Each bookshelf is based on an element from the city; all the 'buildings' relate to the architect whose books are contained in that bookshelf. The library starts with a very modernist grid, very clean, quite precise and evolve through history as it evolves. (Lily points to an icon) My father designed this icon - a circle with a stepped base, which he called the Jencksiana. All the books he wrote sits within the Jencksiana today. The icon can also be seen throughout the house.

The Jencksiana icon by Charles Jencks. Photo courtesy of Sue Barr.

Von Chua:

With the Sir John Soane's Museum, Soane was known for his experimental spirit and often built things, take them down, then rebuild them again. Was that also something that your father did?

Lily Jencks:

No, which is surprising. This house really was like a set piece, except for this sofa (in the Spring Room) that we're sitting on now. Also, the sofa my stepmother installed when she moved in. She said no, we need at least one comfortable sofa to sit on.

… the Chinese rocks. He was always repositioning these rocks around the house… From some views they are like an elephant, from another view, they are a face. They have all these different meanings and that was important for him when he was writing about architecture as well, the idea of multiple metaphors and pluralistic meaning.

- Lily Jencks

The things that moved, a bit like Soane, were the Chinese rocks. He was always repositioning these rocks around the house. He loved them for all the reasons that they are a big part of Asian culture. They are a strange combination of dynamic movement but set solid in stone. Also, they are enigmatic signifiers. From some views they are like an elephant, from another view, they are a face. They have all these different meanings and that was important for him when he was writing about architecture as well, the idea of multiple metaphors and pluralistic meaning.

Von Chua:

The use of materials and colours throughout the house have been particularly striking to me. To name a few, the fireplace by Michael Graves in MDF was painted to resemble red marble to the use of mirrors at the Moonwell. How did Charles Jencks approach materials and colours?

Lily Jencks:

If modernism - in a simplistic view - is about truth to material, pure expression of structure, being transparent with how things are made etc. Post-modernism is a rejection of that, it's about fakery, playful tricks, (some smoke and mirrors), adding ornaments that hide details or express them more, playing with layers of meaning, adding history, adding reference etc. It is always 'more / and'. It's also obviously way cheaper to paint MDF. You can get lots of different colours, exactly as you want them. This allows you to stay more in control of the symbolic programmes, references, and inferences.

Von Chua:

The Cosmic House is a collection of the work of many architects, designers, craftsmen and artists. Tell me a bit more about the approach.

We sat in the Spring Room with the yellow sofa, fireplace designed by Michael Graves, crowned with female representations of the 3 months of spring by Penelope Jencks. Sketched by Von Chua.

Lily Jencks:

This floor is organized around the four or five seasons, (for the half-season of Indian Summer). They asked quite a few architects to design the fireplace in the winter and spring rooms. Rem Koolhaas did a design, Jeremy Dickson did a design, and this (fireplace beside the yellow sofa) was built by Michael Graves. Charles and Maggie, as clients, provided a strong symbolic programme of the references - The Three Graces, poems about spring, and then asked architects to respond to those programmes in their design.

Michael Graves, who was a post-modernist architect was an excellent colourist, using colours to tell

the story and communicate the programme of the house. He responded to the symbolic programme very clearly. I've been to Michael Graves' house in Princeton, now a house museum - The Warehouse. I remember walking into his house and thinking 'Oh! This is so familiar!' For example, the layering of space with interconnected overlapping rooms, which - by the way - is a terrible way to live with teenage children! This house is so noisy, as you have a concrete stair in the middle of it. You hear someone going up and down every time; the reverberation comes right through the house. There are great ideas about in-betweenness but on a functional level with teenage children, it's hard.

The first exhibition will be about the design of the house, internally looking to try to explain what the house is. In future years, the exhibitions will be much broader - opening up how we understand the cosmic's relationship to architecture, situating it in discourse.

- Lily Jencks

The first exhibition will be about the design of the house, internally looking to try to explain what the house is. In future years, the exhibitions will be much broader - opening up how we understand the cosmic's relationship to architecture, situating it in discourse. With the first exhibition, it is more about where we are, what this museum is, as we're all trying to get to grips with it. We have a huge archive, which we're starting to catalogue. It's a lot of work to be done before we've fully explored our own archive.

Von Chua:

Charles Jencks worked with several artists such as Eduardo Paolozzi and Celia Scott. These artworks seem site-specific to me. Are the artworks in the house commissioned art?

They were friends with lots of different artists who loved to have parties or gatherings, and to have different people who thought different things come together to debate cultural ideas… in the context of this house which had some skin in the cultural game, in terms of marking out his position on what architecture should be.

- Lily Jencks

Lily Jencks:

He commissioned most pieces in the house. These sculptures (by Michael Graves' fireplace next to the yellow sofa in the Spring Room) are by my aunt, my dad's sister Penelope Jencks. My father's mum was an artist. They lived in a community of artists in America and that was a big part of his life growing up. They were friends with lots of different artists who loved to have parties or gatherings, and to have different people who thought different things come together to debate cultural ideas. Eg. Why should we have ornamentation? Also projective ideas about what is next and how to evolve as a culture. Artists are the people most engaged with those questions and, naturally, he was friends with many of them. He loved to have people sit down, "You think this, and you (over there) think the opposite. Now both of you have to discuss it!" Of course it would drive people a bit crazy, but it did evoke some fun and interesting conversations. And this was in the context of this house which had some skin in the cultural game, in terms of marking out his position on what architecture should be.

That's one of the things that we really want to keep alive here. Through residencies, specially commissioned projects, publications, etc to keep that spirit of engaging with and driving contemporary culture.

Von Chua:

The yellow sofa here in the Spring Room, it's made for it, isn't it?

Lily Jencks:

Exactly! Not the most comfortable for lounging around, but very convivial for a debate.

Von Chua:

Charles Jencks submitted a planning application to convert The Thematic House/The Cosmic House into a museum in 2017. When did this intention come to mind?

Lily Jencks:

Well, while I worked with my father on the house's conversion to a house museum, I wasn't part of the listing conversation so I don't have the full story. Historic England was doing a series of listings of post-modern buildings. There has since been one other - John Outram's house has been Grade I listed, so there are now two. With the listing, we decided to set up The Cosmic House to open it to the public for others to enjoy.

Although we want to preserve the house, that's our primary aim, we're also very open. We want to keep the house alive, to keep it being a place that can help develop spaces for artists, writers and architects to come together and explore ideas. A platform and forum for debate. It's important that it doesn't become too preserved in aspic and that it stays alive.

- Lily Jencks

I wasn't necessarily going to be involved in the project, but when my father died, he asked Edwin Heathcote (the Financial Times architecture correspondent) to be the 'Keeper of Meaning', and Eddie needed more feet on the ground, to set things up. We've always talked about wanting the house not to be a mausoleum. We don't have a massive conservation department. Although we want to preserve the house, that's our primary aim, we're also very open. We want to keep the house alive, to keep it being a place that can help develop spaces for artists, writers and architects to come together and explore ideas. A platform and forum for debate. It's important that it doesn't become too preserved in aspic and that it stays alive.